The 'Grand Lodge At York - The Grand Lodge of All England' asserts that they are the legacy heir to a supposed meeting of all operative Masons called by King Athelstane in York, England in 926 A.D. - despite the fact that the 'meeting' referred to above is just a Masonic legend, proven as such over a century ago. While their website cites Mackey as their source, there are numerous other Masonic writers (particularly those AFTER the 'age of realism' arrived in Freemasonry in the late 1800s, after the death of Mackey) who stridently disagree. Even contemporaries of Mackey claimed he was wrong in his statements about the York meeting.

To be fair, when the first Grand Lodge was formed, it too claimed a pedigree reaching back to Noah and the Flood, the Building of King Solomon's Temple and more. That, though, was in 1717 when it was fashionable to use such things to prove one's legitimacy. Even the Royal Society did such things - but that was 300 years ago and this is now!

Regardless, the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE), the 'mother' Grand Lodge of the world, has issued a statement about this group: you can view it on a UK Provincial Grand Lodge website here. Their comments are FAR more harsh than ours and it's not just about territory. A group with a half-million members isn't 'running scared' of a group who wouldn't have enough to fill a bus (perhaps even a mini-bus?) so we think their whining about persecution by the 'big, bad group' is simply sour grapes.

It comes down to this: someone 'declares' that - because of the name they've given their group or that they had a meeting in the same city that a fairy tale originated - that somehow makes them into what was a thousand years ago (or as recently as just 500 years ago) or it makes them into the reality of a fantasy story from a century ago. Does this make sense? If so, no need to read any further: join them and be happy! However, in what to most folks would be the 'real world', simply announcing that you've held a meeting and filed some paperwork with the government means that now you've 'reestablished' something that hasn't existed for a centuries (or, in fact, quite probably never existed at all) is awfully bizarre. According to a message we've received from this organization's 'Grand Secretary' threatening us:

"For your information, this original and independent Grand Lodge was legally reponed⁽¹⁾ here in York during December 2005 and legally constituted and registered as such.

It is therefore the original and ancient Grand Lodge of All England at York working under The Old York Constitution of 1705. It is our intention to jealously defend this position by whatever means are at our disposal."

So, according to them, they're original and independent and replaced a (likely) legend from centuries ago. Fine. Who are we to argue with such things and why would anyone make threats to 'prove' it?

Simply stated, in the present day for a new Grand Lodge to form and receive recognition requires several things must be in place  including either the absence of a Grand Lodge in that geographical area (as was done a few decades ago in Alaska, USA, for example) AND for it to be formed by THREE (count 'em - 3) 'regular lodges' already operating in that physical location under the aegis of a regular and recognized Grand Lodge. A couple of guys meeting somewhere (pub, chapel, whatever) and claiming that they're "reponing" something doesn't really count - in marbles or in Freemasonry!

And there's one other thing: the Grand Lodge whose lodges are already there must ASSENT to the creation of the new Grand Lodge. If you read the letter from the United Grand Lodge of England, sent to all of their Lodge Secretaries throughout England and the world (it's not private: it's on official websites of the organization), you'll find something quite different.

Now for those who aren't familiar with the niceties of Masonic recognition, all of this may seem very tedious. However, it's necessary in order to ensure that those who are seeking to join Freemasonry will, in fact, have the ability to 'travel in foreign countries' as Master Masons and enjoy fraternal friendship with the 4-5 million Masons located around the world. Otherwise, any bloke on the street corner could grab a mate and go set up their own little pub club, calling it a 'Grand Lodge' and start soliciting subscriptions in return for money. The bottom line, though, is that regardless of how many Masonic-related graphics anyone uses on their website and despite employing Masonic titles including the cozy reference to 'Brothers', joining with one of these groups is not going to cause ANYONE (except the small number of people in that so-called 'Grand Lodge') to acknowledge you as a Mason. (Be sure to see our page on Recognition for more information.)

UPDATE: November, 2007 - Be careful about what you read on the web - and how it can mislead. They used to say on their website:

The Grand Lodge of All England at York has established its Legitimacy of Origin and Regularity with The Conference of Grand Masters of North America, The Commission on Information for Recognition.  (Written confirmation received 27th October 2006)

Now why they needed to establish ANYTHING with North America since they're in Merry Olde England is a mystery but that notwithstanding, what they didn't mention is that they had been told otherwise in subsequent e-mails. You can, in fact, now read exactly what the Commission has to say about them: 

2. An organization calling itself the Grand Lodge of All England is presenting itself as a legitimate Masonic Grand Lodge in England. It claims to trace its roots to a Lodge at York, founded in 1705, which later styled itself a Grand Lodge in 1725, first named the Old Grand Lodge at York, and later the Grand Lodge of All England at York. This Grand Lodge went dormant in 1740, was revived in 1761, and went dormant again in 1791, never to meet again. On December 23, 2005, an assembly of Masons met and “reclaimed English Freemasonry on behalf of its rightful custodians.” The Grand Lodge of All England emerged and is said to be a revival of the Grand Lodge that went dormant in 1791. 

It must again be stated that the Commission does not determine the regularity of a Grand Lodge; it only evaluates the facts available to determine if the entity meets the standards for recognition, as adopted by the Conference of Grand Masters of North America, and reports those findings to the member Grand Lodges of this Conference for their use. 

The Commission cannot validate the claimed legitimacy of origin of the Grand Lodge of All England, since no documentation has been presented that this Grand Lodge was reinstated or reconstituted in 2005 by a recognized Masonic authority. In addition, it cannot claim exclusive territorial jurisdiction since a pact or treaty does not exist to share the jurisdiction with the United Grand Lodge of England. It is therefore the opinion of the Commission that the Grand Lodge of All England does not meet the standards for recognition. 

Full report here and here. No recognition = no admittance for its members anywhere other than it's own couple of lodges with the only ones acknowledging its members as Masons are the other members of that same group - that small coterie of believers.

UPDATE: December, 2007 - Gee whiz! They must be reading this page.... <chuckle>

December saw a flurry (perhaps 'frantic outpouring' might be a better description?) of essays, blog posts, etc. trying to justify their LACK of recognition. Gone is the claim they'd made about "establishing its Legitimacy of Origin and Regularity" with, instead, the Conference of Grand Masters of North America now demonized as irrelevant to their existence. They also moan that the statement made about them by COGMNA wasn't placed on the web until 7 months after COGMNA's annual meeting - which, we'd think, could/should have worked in their favor giving their fantasy a half-year reprieve! In reality, the back story is that the e-mail sent them wasn't really what they claimed it was and they had received a subsequent clarification that NOTHING had 'been established' by the Commission contrary to their assertions. Their current claim that the Conference is back-peddling is actually back-peddling of their own! If they want to make the claim that they WERE acknowledged somehow, then they should produce ALL of the e-mails they  received from the Conference Secretary on the matter so that their assertions could be examined in the light of day!

In addition, the reponed Grand Lodge of All England has now begun to violate even more Masonic 'landmarks' (and/or traditions and/or protocols) by "invading" the territory of regular/recognized Grand Lodges, ostensibly forming so-called Grand Lodges in the United States. Their first is a lodge in Ohio which is headed by an individual who has already belonged to TWO OTHER pseudo-'Grand Lodges' which are identified here on masonicinfo.com as 'bogus'. He seems to think that the third time will be the charm apparently - or really wants a chance to wear a fancy apron! We wish him the best. The Grand Lodge of All England, like the Regular Grand Lodge of England, seems to be reaching out actively to disaffected Black men who belong to groups which are considered 'fake Masonry' by those in the United States in particular - and the siren song they're playing for them seems to be proving very attractive. We can't help be impressed by the loyalty of these new leaders: dangle a title in front of them and they're yours! What a great way to increase membership, eh?

Oh, and the 'next big thing' is their breathless announcement that "After many years of concentrated research, The Grand Lodge at York is pleased to announce that it has traced the final resting place of King Athelstan's brother, Prince Edwin of York." "...many years...."? This group has only been in existence for two at the time of the announcement. For an organization claiming a connection back to 900AD, you wouldn't think that two years is "many" would you? But more than that, so what? Does this somehow give legitimacy to the fact that a group (of perhaps two people, maybe even one!: the information has never been made public on it) got together in York, England and declared themselves to be the legacy heirs of something that's been dead for a couple of centuries? Not bloody likely....

All of the above notwithstanding, we have said before and will repeat it here yet again even though this group has gotten VERY angry about us writing things which might cause you to recognize that they're not 'the real deal': if you want to join something you think is going to be just right for you, GO FOR IT! PLEASE don't let anything we've written stop you from doing what your heart most desires. In this case, if you want to meet up with a couple of fellows you think are ok, you might enjoy this organization and/or others like it very much. If, however, you want to be a true part of the 300+ year old tradition that is Freemasonry and want to be able to visit those Masonic lodge buildings found both locally and around the world, you won't be able to do so. In addition, if you join an unrecognized (sometimes referred to as "clandestine") lodge such as those run by the "Grand Lodge of All England", it could be a more difficult process to become a Mason in a regular and recognized lodge later on. That's just the way things are - and we don't make the rules on this stuff!

And just so you know, their website wasn't created until January of 2006 so their claim to an ancient copyright lineage going all the way back to 2005 is specious at best. See here for the proof. What we found even more comical, though, was that an apparent member of a regular/recognized lodge in Maryland, USA owns their domain name! Oh, and before we get another e-mail from their "Grand Secretary", this time railing that we're wrong about the ownership thing, we'd encourage him to try transferring the domain admin name/address, for example. The point will be proven.

⁽¹⁾   \Re*pone"\ (r?-p?n"), v. t. [L. reponere; pref. re- re- + ponere to place.] To replace. --R. Baillie.

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